- LL
- What inspired the world of A Thousand Red Threads?
- NH
- I read an article on Indonesian Vice, published in 2016 by Dea Karina titled ‘What It's Like to Be the Daughter of a Notorious Gangster.’ And I thought, now that’s a solid YA book, what would it be like to be the daughter of a crime lord? I was intrigued by how this would shape one’s ethics of violence, power, wealth, love. When I visited Jogjakarta in February, I actually managed to find the girl who the story was written about!
- LL
- How did you approach researching for the novel?
- NH
- It’s an ongoing process, but I did preliminary research for about 6 months. What I found in Australia were mostly scholarship texts, exclusively written by Australian or Dutch people, so it came from a foreign, global perspective. I knew I had to go to Jogja to access their libraries and university archives. So, I lived there for a month, stayed at the village where Winda lived, interviewed the gang lord’s daughter, mother, and best friend for anecdotes. Went to archive keepers, lots of libraries, and sought out second-hand books. I’m still sorting through this now!
- LL
- Could you speak to the significance of the time period?
- NH
- In September 1965, a Presidential coup happened which replaced our first President, who was slowly embracing communist ties and values—the good parts of it, at least. This new President, to oversimplify, was an extreme nationalist. His sentiments were encouraged by the US, the UK, and Australia, and anyone he suspected of having communist-leanings was hunted. The people on this hunt list included Chinese-Indonesians like myself and my ancestors, political radicals, leftists, atheists, our first feminist coalition—which had done incredible work in politics, education, and union rights. All of them were imprisoned or killed, and anyone who criticised him would also disappear. The statistics are shaky but it’s estimated up to 1.2 million people were killed during that time.
- LL
- And the novel is set in the lead up to the Presidential coup, rather than the aftermath?
- NH
- When I was doing my research, the lead up was just as interesting as the fallout. You can actually see and sense how things are changing. It provides an additional tension to what’s going on, and almost all of the main cast have high stakes in this upcoming politicide. They’re either part of the targeted communities or have intimate ties with them. In this way, they’re also some of the best placed people to identify and resist what’s coming, and attempt to chart a different course. ‘Attempt’ being the keyword, as I’m not writing a revisionist history book.
- LL
- Where was the line between fact and fiction for you when writing?
- NH
- I started out being extremely rigid. 1000% accurate. Down to like: ‘If there’s a cop, what is their uniform at that time? The colour of their badge?’ I was that fixated. But after a while I thought, it’s more about fully understanding the situation, and then you can play with it. Jogja’s Sultan, for example, I read biographies and statements from his children and foreign dignitaries, people who loved him and hated him; I looked for pictures and watched videos to study his mannerisms and wardrobe, and then once I had a firm understanding of who he was, I’d think: now who is he in my book? What are the parts I want to keep or change?
- LL
- What’s it like researching and writing simultaneously?
- NH
- I do deep-dives depending on what’s needed for a scene. I’ll look at my chapter lists and be like, ‘Yeah, I’ll write you!’ And then I’ll do a thousand words, and if there’s a critical context I’m missing, or I find out something about a character I didn’t know before, I’ll go back to researching. Or like, if it’s for a F/F flirting scene, I’ll watch old-school lesbian movies - Saving Face, Water Lilies, Bound, Watermelon Woman.
- LL
- Classics. With many of the novel’s characters being Queer, how did you navigate Queerness considering the novel’s time period?
- NH
- I love the Queer question because it’s my one shining beacon to correct people’s misconceptions. Initially, sexuality wasn’t in the political equation—the president ascending was more focused on the public sphere. This is a simplification, but it wasn’t until he was influenced by ideas of the ‘nuclear family,’ and often referred to himself as the nation’s ‘Father’ that the concept of ‘Dad-Mom-Children’ became more pervasive.
In Indonesia we have a really rich and proud history of Queerness. In the 80s, we had Queer magazines that circulated nationally like GAYA Nusantara and local ones like Buletin Paraikatte in Makassar. It was written for us by us—it even had dating columns! There were inter-city poetry slams hosted by drag queens, and we were written about in newspapers like Tempo and Kompas.
When I was in Jogja, I got to interview my grandpa’s cousin, who very generously let me bring back her photo albums as visual references. She used to work in a salon owned by a transwoman who was also her mentor. And I asked: ‘Did people treat her differently?’ And my grandpa’s cousin replies, ‘No, people would wait for months to book an appointment with her. She was the best hairdresser in the city and that was that.’
(Disclaimer: This interview has been edited and condensed)